Romans and the Government
Many often refer to Romans 13 as the guide to how Christians should act in accordance with the government. Romans 13 states that all authority have been established by God, and we should therefore submit to such authority::
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience” sake.
This passage is used to justify a great many things – wars, unjust laws, violence as a punishment, etc. Yet do the same people that use this passage in such a way really take this passage seriously?
If one believes that all goverments are established by God, why do these same people believe that it is okay to overthrow goverments outside of the United States?
Why do these people this principle is only true in the United States? Why does this not hold true in Iran? Iraq? Afghanistan? Palestine? North Korea?
How is it possible to support the overthrowing of a government if one holds to the belief that all goverment authority is established by God?
[cross posted at Mindful Mission]
Good questions Dave (hope there isn’t any bad blood between us, sorry if I was a bit stout on the other thread). I don’t think there are any real easy answers. Frankly, I don’t think the bible says much about how we are to deal with politics (other than submit to rulers and pray for them) for the mere fact that this world is not our home, we are pilgrims here.
No bad blood. I blog about politics – I have to be thick skineed. I just don’t like assumptions!
Okay…but what what does it mean to submit to rulers?
Just what it says. This practically means pay your taxes, and follow the laws made. The exception to following the laws made are when they go against conscience (which is captive by the word of God) forbidding worship of Christ (in the negative) or commanding the immoral (in the positive).
Dave I like your question about Romans 13. I will admit, I find my self semi-convicted by this question. I do see the wrong in saying obey your government and then turning around and overthrowing another government in the MIddle East or in another place. But with some of those governments, such as the regieme in Afghanistan under the Taliban, declared war on our own country and we fought back, defeated them, and then put a less hostile/more peaceful government in place (whether it remains that way is up to the people in Afghanistan). If wielding the sword means engaging in a war to defend you people, then what happened in Afghanistan is biblical. Due to the controversial nature of Iraq, I don’t feel like commenting on it so that the blog will stay with in the scope of theology. I like the point you made in this post.
Something to chew on:
If God is in control (i.e. if the governmnets in place are put there by God and He holds them in power) , and sets the authorities and takes down the authorities, then if a government is successful in taking down another government, it must have been God’s will.
Henry…don’t you think that is somewhat of a cop-out?
Using your logic we can justify anything that our leaders to by saying “God is in control.”
I am not sure if I should go in this direction, but I will anyway.
Was it God’s will for millions of Jews to be killed in the Holocaust? What about Rwanda? Sudan? Iraq? The Armenian Genocide?
Saying that everything is God’s will opens up a huge can of worms…
I was introducing it for the sole purpose to show that if you hold tightly to the Romans passage, that is where the logic leads when one thinks about the following:
I don’t know how anyone can know the will of God for sure when it comes to governments. But I think the logic holds. If it is a cop-out, it is an honest one.
What you bring up (
Was it God’s will for millions of Jews to be killed in the Holocaust? What about Rwanda? Sudan? Iraq? The Armenian Genocide? ) is why I am not in the Calvinist (or better put, a strict determanistic) camp.
There is the Will of God, what happens (what we as humans do), and what God does as a response to our actions.
The “what happens” is our free will that can either go with God’s Will or against it.
30’s Europe, Rwanda, Sudan, ect… are humans going against God’s will.
What I think is the more condemning for pro-war Christians is the preceding passage:
Hey guys,
We talk about how things like the Jewish Holocaust and that God cannot possibly have been behind that in any way because it is a terrible thing. I want to point out some verses from the Bible in which God does some very terrible things that are similar to these things.
Deuteronomy 28:63, “And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.”
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, “For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But God’s wrath has come upon them at last!” When God’s wrath came upon the Jews in AD 66-73, Jerusalem was destroyed. Millions of Jews were killed by the civil war and the Roman advance. Yet it was God who was behind this horrible event.
Revelation 17:16-17, “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.” Without getting into whether this describes a past or future event, there is one thing that is very certain about these verses: God is the one who is behind the terrible attack upon the prostitute.
I know that these verses deal with judgment issues. I am not trying to make an argument that God was juding the Jews in the 1930s and 40s. I am not saying that about any of those terrible events. My point is this, in as much as that was a sin for Rome to slaughter the Jews like they did, it was God’s will. Deuteronomy even goes as so far to say that God delights in these terrible events. So in light of Scripture, we need to rethink just how active is God, even in the terrible times. Like Job said in Job 2:10, “Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” (In Job 1-2, it was God who began the whole process of Satan attacking Job and his family.
I agree completely with you. But I wasn’t looking for an passage condemning pro-war Christians as much as I was looking at the inconsistency with dealing with this specific passage.
As for God’s will including things like the Holocaust…I am not so sure. But I don’t have time to deal with that right now… :)