Comments on: Church and State http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/ Conversations in Theology and its interaction with Culture Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:08:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Dan http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5032 Dan Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:14:59 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5032 The caption at the bottom is in song or poem form, almost like a Scriptural quote. That is odd. Does anyone recognize those lines? They are disturbing. The caption at the bottom is in song or poem form, almost like a Scriptural quote. That is odd. Does anyone recognize those lines? They are disturbing.

]]> By: Henry Michael Imler http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5026 Henry Michael Imler Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:00:20 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5026 ....echos JR..... America is no shining city on a hill - but we are to all be lamps! ….echos JR….. America is no shining city on a hill - but we are to all be lamps!

]]> By: jr. http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5013 jr. Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:35:58 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5013 As Tom is fond of pointing out, the NT does not espouse a "theology of the Land". The people of God, the nation of God, the Kingdom of God is no longer bound by political or ethnic identity.  We are all peoples, tribes and tongues. As Tom is fond of pointing out, the NT does not espouse a "theology of the Land".

The people of God, the nation of God, the Kingdom of God is no longer bound by political or ethnic identity.  We are all peoples, tribes and tongues.

]]> By: theotica http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5012 theotica Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:36:43 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5012 In THE COST OF DISCIPLESHIP, Bonhoeffer treats the change from nation to congregation with some detail that might be elucidating here. I don't have access to all my books (sigh) or i'd quote for you. The upshot is that the congregation has no native civil rights. It's a great read, although not easy. That OT Israel is confused with America now is the fault of dispensationalism. I really don't see how the OT concept of "nation" (heterogeneous people group), has anything to do with modern nation states. In THE COST OF DISCIPLESHIP, Bonhoeffer treats the change from nation to congregation with some detail that might be elucidating here. I don’t have access to all my books (sigh) or i’d quote for you. The upshot is that the congregation has no native civil rights. It’s a great read, although not easy.

That OT Israel is confused with America now is the fault of dispensationalism. I really don’t see how the OT concept of “nation” (heterogeneous people group), has anything to do with modern nation states.

]]> By: Henry http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5011 Henry Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:27:21 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5011 does anyone know of a good primary text that explains the type of thinking exemplified in the picture? does anyone know of a good primary text that explains the type of thinking exemplified in the picture?

]]> By: Puritanbob http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5009 Puritanbob Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:03:56 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-5009 People just don't know any better. A lot of Christians seem to have this notion that America is this sort of Israel and God needs to be yoked with American Patriotism. Not that patriotism is bad, I certainly don't want to endorse the growing "being politically and theologically progressive and Christian is cool" camp. I guess my biggest qualm is the slogans and the cross and flag together. Putting the teachings of our Lord and instrument of His death whereby He saved His elect side by side with American patriotism seems to belittle the work of Christ unintentionally. People just don’t know any better. A lot of Christians seem to have this notion that America is this sort of Israel and God needs to be yoked with American Patriotism. Not that patriotism is bad, I certainly don’t want to endorse the growing “being politically and theologically progressive and Christian is cool” camp. I guess my biggest qualm is the slogans and the cross and flag together. Putting the teachings of our Lord and instrument of His death whereby He saved His elect side by side with American patriotism seems to belittle the work of Christ unintentionally.

]]> By: cheapham http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4948 cheapham Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:37:34 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4948 This is especially interesting to me right now. I'm taking a seminar called New Testament, Biblical Studies, and Empire. For part of the class, we've looked at ancient Roman art and architecture, seeing how the very artwork itself puts forth a rhetorical argument that is part of the larger imperial discourse. Art says something, it performs a type of work in identity formation. I've found it quite fascinating. Now, when I look at this float I must pause. What is the rhetoric that this piece of art is putting forth? What work is it doing? The mixing of Christian, American, and especially Military images is quite the powerful statement. This statement in turn affects the way the surrounding community conceives of itself. It's quite the circular reinforcement. I wonder what work has been done comparing ancient Roman art-rhetoric with that of present day art. Such a project would potentially be pretty immense if done in appropriate detail. Perhaps I've got a paper to write... This is especially interesting to me right now. I’m taking a seminar called New Testament, Biblical Studies, and Empire. For part of the class, we’ve looked at ancient Roman art and architecture, seeing how the very artwork itself puts forth a rhetorical argument that is part of the larger imperial discourse. Art says something, it performs a type of work in identity formation. I’ve found it quite fascinating.

Now, when I look at this float I must pause. What is the rhetoric that this piece of art is putting forth? What work is it doing? The mixing of Christian, American, and especially Military images is quite the powerful statement. This statement in turn affects the way the surrounding community conceives of itself. It’s quite the circular reinforcement.

I wonder what work has been done comparing ancient Roman art-rhetoric with that of present day art. Such a project would potentially be pretty immense if done in appropriate detail. Perhaps I’ve got a paper to write…

]]> By: Honzo http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4947 Honzo Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:59:30 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4947 Dave, Thanks for the links. I think I am actually going to use this photo in a paper where I am comparing nationalism in American Christianity to nationalism during the reformation period and the use of woodcuts. As I am looking into this more, it turns out that the theme of the Festival was "<a href="http://www.versailleschamber.org/OTAF.htm" rel="nofollow">United We Stand</a>," so at least that is something. Dave,

Thanks for the links. I think I am actually going to use this photo in a paper where I am comparing nationalism in American Christianity to nationalism during the reformation period and the use of woodcuts.

As I am looking into this more, it turns out that the theme of the Festival was “United We Stand,” so at least that is something.

]]> By: dave http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4946 dave Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:59:26 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4946 ugh. that. is. awful. I have written a bit on this topic <a href="http://mindfulmission.com/index.php/2005/07/28/churches_and_nationalism" rel="nofollow">here</a>. And some other good articles <a href="http://jesusradicals.com/essays/events/flagolatry.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.thirdway.com/peace/?Topic=88|Patriotism" rel="nofollow">here</a>. ugh.

that. is. awful.

I have written a bit on this topic here.

And some other good articles here and here.

]]> By: Tom 1st http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4910 Tom 1st Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:29:31 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/2007/10/27/church-and-state/#comment-4910 Wow. How disturbing. I'll give more thoughts later. Right now, I think I'll go gouge my eyes out. Wow. How disturbing.

I’ll give more thoughts later. Right now, I think I’ll go gouge my eyes out.

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