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	<title>Comments on: OS and Adam</title>
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	<link>http://www.masstheology.com/2008/01/31/os-and-adam/</link>
	<description>Conversations in Theology and its interaction with Culture</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hank</title>
		<link>http://www.masstheology.com/2008/01/31/os-and-adam/#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>JR,

Perhaps you can give an exposition of Romans 5 or Romans 9 that demonstrates how viewing these people &#34;mythically&#34; fits the flow of thought better than viewing them as historical?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JR,</p>
<p>Perhaps you can give an exposition of <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+5" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 5</a> or <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+9" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 9</a> that demonstrates how viewing these people &quot;mythically&quot; fits the flow of thought better than viewing them as historical?</p>
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		<title>By: jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.masstheology.com/2008/01/31/os-and-adam/#comment-5665</link>
		<dc:creator>jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think where you guys are going wrong time and time again is that nowhere in Romans is Paul using these figures as historical persons.  Look at Romans 5 and Romans 9.  Paul is using mythical (Adam), historical (Jesus) and quasi-historical figures (Pharaoh, Leah and Rachel) to represent &lt;u&gt;&lt;strong&gt;corporate&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/u&gt; realities.  These persons are not being used &lt;strong&gt;to talk about individual, historical realities&lt;/strong&gt;.  Rather, &lt;strong&gt;they are each being used typologically (which is mythological language), to represent corporate realities and identities.

&lt;/strong&gt;To interpret Paul as dealing with individuals is to misread what Paul is doing in all of Romans.  He is concerned with the corporate nature of humanity and redefining that reality, moving from categories of Jew/Gentile to Adam/Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think where you guys are going wrong time and time again is that nowhere in Romans is Paul using these figures as historical persons.  Look at <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+5" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 5</a> and <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+9" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 9</a>.  Paul is using mythical (Adam), historical (Jesus) and quasi-historical figures (Pharaoh, Leah and Rachel) to represent <u><strong>corporate</strong></u> realities.  These persons are not being used <strong>to talk about individual, historical realities</strong>.  Rather, <strong>they are each being used typologically (which is mythological language), to represent corporate realities and identities.</p>
<p></strong>To interpret Paul as dealing with individuals is to misread what Paul is doing in all of Romans.  He is concerned with the corporate nature of humanity and redefining that reality, moving from categories of Jew/Gentile to Adam/Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.masstheology.com/2008/01/31/os-and-adam/#comment-5662</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hank,

This is a great post!  First, I like what you say a lot about the historicity of Adam.  I think it is clear in Romans 5 that Paul is affirming the historicity of Adam prima facie.  This is so because Paul is considering both Christ and Adam to be men with the exact same roles in God's creation (that is, exact in their opposition to each other). Just as one man brought sin and trespasses into the world, one man brought rightousness and life into the world.  (As a note, I have read Calvin's commentary on Romans 5, and there is a really good case that he propones a doctrine of universal atonement, but that is another post).

As using the word "genetic" to refer to OS, there have been many of Calvin's word and sayings twisted by the Reformers that proceeded him (i.e. the Synod of Dort, Puritans, etc.)  OS obviously is found in all men, but to say that it is found in the DNA of man is another thing.  

Good work and research!

Travis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank,</p>
<p>This is a great post!  First, I like what you say a lot about the historicity of Adam.  I think it is clear in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+5" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 5</a> that Paul is affirming the historicity of Adam prima facie.  This is so because Paul is considering both Christ and Adam to be men with the exact same roles in God&#8217;s creation (that is, exact in their opposition to each other). Just as one man brought sin and trespasses into the world, one man brought rightousness and life into the world.  (As a note, I have read Calvin&#8217;s commentary on <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=NLT;ESV;NASB;TNIV&amp;passage=Romans+5" title="Bible Gateway">Romans 5</a>, and there is a really good case that he propones a doctrine of universal atonement, but that is another post).</p>
<p>As using the word &#8220;genetic&#8221; to refer to OS, there have been many of Calvin&#8217;s word and sayings twisted by the Reformers that proceeded him (i.e. the Synod of Dort, Puritans, etc.)  OS obviously is found in all men, but to say that it is found in the DNA of man is another thing.  </p>
<p>Good work and research!</p>
<p>Travis</p>
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