Comments on: Greek New Testament http://www.masstheology.com Conversations in Theology and its interaction with Culture Fri, 16 May 2008 02:50:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Theology for the Masses » Blog Archive » Convo on Luke 11:2 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6109 Theology for the Masses » Blog Archive » Convo on Luke 11:2 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:18:32 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6109 [...] Greek New Testament [...] [...] Greek New Testament [...]

]]> By: Honzo http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6108 Honzo Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:39:23 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6108 <p>Which imperative?  Aren't there three imperatives here:  say, be holy, and arrive?  The last two are third person singular imperatives - I know to translate those as "lets" or "mays".</p> <p>How else can you do them?  With that 2 person plural imperative "say" I thought about saying "<em>[you all are to] say..." </em>to capture the imparative flavor a little more.  However, Jesus telling us to say something is technically just as imperative.</p> Which imperative?  Aren’t there three imperatives here:  say, be holy, and arrive?  The last two are third person singular imperatives - I know to translate those as “lets” or “mays”.

How else can you do them?  With that 2 person plural imperative “say” I thought about saying “[you all are to] say…” to capture the imparative flavor a little more.  However, Jesus telling us to say something is technically just as imperative.

]]> By: Hank http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6106 Hank Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:19:50 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6106 <p>I would agree that saying "Our Father" even though  is not in the text because this is a model prayer and we can adapt it for a community setting. I am wondering if the imperative mood could come out more in the translation than what Honzo suggested. I'm not sure. When I pray, I also address Him as "My Father" or even "my Daddy."<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype,Code2000,Gentium;"> </span></span></p> I would agree that saying “Our Father” even though  is not in the text because this is a model prayer and we can adapt it for a community setting. I am wondering if the imperative mood could come out more in the translation than what Honzo suggested. I’m not sure. When I pray, I also address Him as “My Father” or even “my Daddy.”

]]> By: Honzo http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6105 Honzo Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:13:15 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6105 <p>EI,</p> <p>I am a novice, but this is how I would translate this verse on its own:</p> <p><em>And [Jesus] said to them: "Every time you [all] pray, say: ''Father, may the name of yours [your name] be holy; may the kingdom of yours [your kingdom] appear;'"</em></p> <p>When it comes to the word pater, or father, it is in the vocative, indicating that it is the thing being addressed.  The feeling is that if you are addressing someone as father, it is perfectly fine to say "our father."  The NLT, ESV, and NRSV all leave out the word "our."</p> <p>For our resident Greek experts, Cheapham and Hank, if I am wrong about any of this, please let me know.</p> EI,

I am a novice, but this is how I would translate this verse on its own:

And [Jesus] said to them: “Every time you [all] pray, say: ”Father, may the name of yours [your name] be holy; may the kingdom of yours [your kingdom] appear;’”

When it comes to the word pater, or father, it is in the vocative, indicating that it is the thing being addressed.  The feeling is that if you are addressing someone as father, it is perfectly fine to say “our father.”  The NLT, ESV, and NRSV all leave out the word “our.”

For our resident Greek experts, Cheapham and Hank, if I am wrong about any of this, please let me know.

]]> By: E. I. Sanchez http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6103 E. I. Sanchez Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:52:18 +0000 http://www.masstheology.com/test-greek/#comment-6103 Nice.  I was just browsing for Luke 11:2 - It is too bad that you can't copy and paste from here. Since I'm here - how is it that we translate <strong>hmwn</strong> as "our father"?  was is there in the sentence that makes us "our father" instead of just "abba" or pater? Is the "our" just part of the context?  The Vulgate translation doesn't say "nostro" or anything that looks like "our father"... Thanks in advance, and remember I don't know greek so I"m just wondering. Nice.  I was just browsing for Luke 11:2 - It is too bad that you can’t copy and paste from here.

Since I’m here - how is it that we translate hmwn
as “our father”?  was is there in the sentence that makes us “our father” instead of just “abba” or pater?
Is the “our” just part of the context?  The Vulgate translation doesn’t say “nostro” or anything that looks like “our father”…
Thanks in advance, and remember I don’t know greek so I”m just wondering.

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